Season 3 of the food forest cast

Photo Gabriela Hengeveld for We are the ReGeneration

In search of our shared reality

This is the third season of the food forest cast, in which Frank Gorter and Marieke Karssen explore the limits of shared reality. We very quickly disagree with each other. About the future or about how we strengthen agriculture and nature. And that's fine, as long as it remains an open discussion. Do we still meet and understand each other enough? And how important is that for the development of food forests?

To further explore the power of shared reality, we invite you, too. How do you share food forest reality? And with whom? Tell us below and who knows, maybe you'll be in our final broadcast. You can submit your story until September 30.

You can also support us very easily from now on, you can find that directly below as well. 

The food forest cast is not free

Or actually ... until now, it was. We made it largely for free, but that's not sustainable. So, do you care about the food forestcast? Then donate an amount that you can spare and that you think the food forestcast is worth.
For reference, we state that one food forest cast episode costs 500 euros at an hourly rate of 45 euros.
Thank you!

Donate and make the food forest cast possible!


Episodes 2024

Roeland Lelieveld

Season 3, episode 49

Say you go on an internship from Wellant College to Kenya at age 20, and see what needs to be done there to restore water retention and improve soils. That happens more often than not, you write that report and done. But, Roeland decided from that moment on to save every penny he had and do everything he could to then start making that change. Not for a few years, but from 2005 until now.

And so now -not even halfway through his working life- he can say that he has helped completely change the ecology and prosperity for the inhabitants and an area of 600km2 in Kenya. Listen to the extraordinary brain and story of Roeland Lelieveld.

Louise van der Stok and Jordy van Eijk

Season 3, episode 48

Jordy and Louise take you into their new reality. That of the complex agroforestry systems in their foundation Regeneration. New terms that nevertheless sound very familiar. And so we immediately believe them when they tell you how they help farmers in those systems simply make a living and build healthy food and resilient communities. Wonderfully positive and . actually like there is no alternative anymore.

Kees van Veluw

Season 3, episode 47

Kees has had quite a life in organic and ecological farming. And you can hear that in this podcast full of enthusiastic, but also sometimes pessimistic experience. He has seen so much go wrong that now, more firmly than ever, he calls for taking our food supply out of the capitalist market system. That sounds very nice, but how feasible is it. We asked through.

Also read the -coincidentally- almost simultaneously published essay by Kees, on exactly this subject in Trouw of Saturday 24-5-24

Pip Gilmore

Season 3, episode 46

In this episode, we finally examine the time of the mycelium. Slower, but also very flexible. It doesn't reveal itself so easily, but eventually you recognize the rhythm as as natural as the seasons of the plant.

So is our conversation with mushroom pioneer Pip Gilmore of Green Branches. Searching for the language, then the method, then the answers, but by the end you know about the doughing, hatching, flowering and dipping, and thus how exactly it works: growing mushrooms on wood.

Martin Slort

Season 3, episode 45

Martin's life slowly but surely changed completely when he discovered how big a role food played in solving his health problems. Then he discovered permaculture and went wild. For him, health is a comprehensive concept.

He now lives with his family in a four-acre paradise and has made designing and consulting on just such paradises his job. But, the conversation takes many more twists and turns. We talk about livestock in a food forest, about learning to deal with death and, of course, how everything is a design issue.

Emile van der Staak

Season 3, episode 44

As a chef, Emile van der Staak grew up together with Ketelbroek - Wouter van Eck's food forest, so to speak. Every week these two men meet in the food forest to pick and taste, after which Emile, in his restaurant De Nieuwe Winkel, develops more and more insanely innovative dishes and also products based on all the starches, proteins, berries, leaves, branches, and nuts from the food forest.

Because taste is number one and he feels it is his great task to develop those new flavors exclusively from plant-based materials. So that we as a society will actually step into that new plant-based reality.

Frank Gorter and Marieke Karssen

Season 3, episode 43

Every season has a new theme and in this first episode of season 3, Frank and Marieke explain why they choose this theme of shared reality and also why they came up with a contest to go with it. Only when we share our reality with others, who do not yet know it, do we change the world. 

But, as usual, they also use the first episode to talk more about what they themselves are doing. From search conferences and sustainable businesses to literally farming in the clay of the local market in France.

In the winter season: food forestcasts by theme

There are 42 episodes after two years. A very long list. Especially for new listeners, but also for others who miss us during the winter period in winter 2023/2024 we now developed a wonderful new initiative: food forestcasts by theme. Marieke van der Velden, from Eyeopeners created a fantastic talking picture for each theme.
We were able to make four themes in this winter. This will be continued next winter. 

Theme 1 So many food forests ... so many kinds of food forests

A food forest is not just a pile of trees and shrubs that are edible. A successful food forest, which you don't have to fertilize, and where nothing needs to be controlled by us humans, has a system. Fortunately, there is a lot of consensus about those systems. But there are also differences. In this issue, you'll hear four food forest podcasts on the essence of what a food forest is to them and why they are such a fantastic solution to ... everything really.

Theme 2 The communication and scaling power of good design

Every food forest is different. You could almost say, just as every garden is different. The owner or designer can put a lot of their own ideas into it. Where will the tall trees be? And where the paths? And will it be all straight or just full of exciting vistas? Is it about botany, biodiversity, perception, or very practical production? What does the owner like? And tasty? Or is it about more?

Theme 3 Money, contracts and revenue models

For most food forest starters, this is the most difficult issue: money, (good) agreements, earning capacity, regulations and contracts. You want to get started restoring the soil, increasing biodiversity, and growing up in a fantastic new place, but you can't do that without also getting things right economically and in terms of agreements.

Theme 4 Welcome to the world of food forest (farming) jobs

They are there: people who (want to) be able to make a living from their food forest and make it their profession: food forest farmer, food forest job or food forest entrepreneur. In fact, it was difficult to define this theme, because there are also people in other themes who derive part of their income from a food forest.

In 2023, we set out to find the future of our landscape

Below you will find two seasons of the Food Forestcast, a podcast in which Frank Gorter and Marieke Karssen of Food from the Forest talk to pioneers in food forest land and sometimes a somewhat broader area of regenerative agriculture and landscape transition. In search of answers for the future of our food supply, our nature and landscape on this planet and somewhat more concretely in the Netherlands and Belgium.

What makes someone think against all odds that it would be a nice idea to start a food forest in 2009? But also, how do we set up our revenue models so that they are sustainable, and social? And how will we eat when we start living much more from trees and shrubs? And so on and so forth. 

We will return again in the spring of 2024 with the third season. Full of once again very interesting talking points. We already know that.

Would you like to sponsor this podcast? Read all about it at the bottom of this page.

Episodes 2023

Femmeke Huigens

Episode 42, 8-1-2024

In the final podcast of the 2023 season, we speak with Femmeke Huigens, founder of the Drenthe Food Forests Association. A conversation that talks about the explosive success of food forests, but also about how important it is that we unite as a movement. And that we share knowledge about successful food forests. But also that we work together to make regulations more uniform and favorable to this amazing farming system that restores nature while producing more food every year. Femmeke does just that, in Drenthe, and shows how we can all do this everywhere. A much-needed hopeful start to 2024.

Sietske Metz and Micha Wieland

Episode 41, 25-12-2023

In this episode we speak (finally!) with a grower. Micha and Sietske are the heroes behind Holland's purveyor of food forests: nursery Arborealis.

Not only do they talk all about grower licenses, plant passports, and their love for this labor-intensive profession, but we also talk about unexpected effects of climate change and what you can do to help your planting stock get through those early years in the best possible way.

Kien van Hövell tot Westerflier

Episode 40, 11-12-2023

Kien is, as she herself says, a third-generation (in-law) estate owner. Of an estate that at the same time is incredibly connected to the city. And where she herself wanted to give nature back its place in agriculture and work with more values than just the economic.
This starting position is coupled with a brain that is able to combine sometimes enormous long-term visions with super practical daily practice. And that makes for a refreshing podcast, full of new insights you can chew on for a long time to come.

Maurice Ramaker
Episode 39, 27-11-2023

Den Food Bosch is just a small piece of land. But the speed at which everything has grown there in four years makes more and more people, and us too, very curious.

Maurice is one of three rock-solid board members and can explain the system of Syntropic Farming perfectly. Ernst Götsch originally developed this in the tropics. Den Food Bosch is one of the first places to implement this intensive food farming system in the temperate climate zone. Start learning about it in this deliciously substantive food forest cast.

Jeroen Plesman and Maarten van Dam
Episode 38, 13-11-2023

Schevichoven is a farm lifted off the ground with a lot of debt capital by impact investor Maarten van Dam and his family. But it is also a farm where ecology and working with multi-year stratified forest systems is paramount. Maarten and Jeroen Plesman want to show that it can be done. Purely as a farm, with no side income. Jeroen has the task of measuring that and organizing marketing. Will this system pan out? Is this perhaps the way to show regular farmland how it can be done? By the third year, it is quite possible to take stock.

Klarien Klingen
Episode 37, 30-10-2023

This conversation was about money. And about food. And about the capitalist system that sees food as a good and not a right. A system where the human being, the farmer behind the food remains too invisible. And how to deal with that as a farmer. And whether that can also work for farms further from the city.

Few people have thought about all these questions longer than Klarien Klingen. Active for years at Future Farmers and in the CSA network, but also -in practice- as a gardener at the Wild Carrot in Ede. We have hopefully spoon-fed her head very nicely.

Mark Venner
Episode 36, 16-10-2023

Mark Venner is taking over his father's dairy farm and with the help of his family, he is converting the traditional mixed farm to a mixed farm with trees. With that, everything is changing at Leuker1818, Limburg's family business since 1818, converting the 25 acres into mixed forest and farming systems with the goal of bringing back local entrepreneurship and jobs. In doing so, he is setting an example for a new generation of farmers, whether they are side hustlers or not.

Victor Stukker
Episode 35, 2-10-2023

Victor Stukker of petit restaurant Héron in Utrecht grew up in the woods ánd in the hospitality industry. Two big spoons that have led to a restaurant concept that is well thought out in every respect. He has been harvesting from nature and food forest Lekker Landgoed for years. His restaurant processes only local products, he has already removed almost all disposable plastics from the business and, above all, he does not want to get bigger. In this podcast, Victor takes us through his vision of the new food and the new life.


Nicholas Geijer
Episode 34, 18-9-2023

What happens when young people just step into the new reality with all the legs and arms they have. Of extinct biodiversity, rising temperatures and their future? Will they then think and act like previous generations or will something new emerge? To ask the question is to answer it. The conversation with 25-year-old student, food forest owner and consultant Nicolaas Geijer starts off pretty ordinary, but ends with vistas we fifty-somethings didn't even know could be seen.

Kaat Biesemans-Hoogewijs
Episode 33, 4-9-2023

There you are, course certificate in hand and looking for new work and land. Kaat can tell about this search like no other because she has lived it.

And besides, she has a wonderfully fresh perspective on this world. In love with nature, good at connecting with volunteers and stakeholders, constantly learning, and meanwhile probably our first guest to land a regular job as food forester at food forest Natuurplaats Binnenbos in Driebergen.

Chantal van Genderen
Episode 32, 21-8-2023

Chantal comes from the art world but was increasingly drawn to greenery, permaculture and herbal medicine. When she moved from her little balcony in Amsterdam to rural Brummen in 2017, she not only got her first garden of her own, but was able to participate right away in the community food forest just established there. A delightful conversation full of interesting experiences, unusual perspectives, wise lessons, and a practical vision for the future.

Frank Heckman

Episode 31, 7-8-2023

Many food forests are not established and managed by one owner, but by a group of people. And so there is a group process and it is quite difficult to (continue to) do that well.

For years, social architect Frank Heckman of the Embassy of the Earth Foundation has been working on innovative ways to get groups to actually work together, and one way he does that is by reconnecting people with nature. Find out how that works in this podcast.

John Vermeer

Episode 30, 24-7-2023

Why is it that there are so many food forests in North Brabant? And that there's so much to do around food forests there, too? If you want an answer to that question, listen to this podcast with Mister Brabant John Vermeer. Packed with energy, tips and inspiration and all in all very instructive for those who want to replicate this miracle in other provinces.

Diderik Clarebout

Episode 29, 10-7-2023

Diderik is a modern, ecological food forest farmer. On his farm de Woudezel, about 6 acres in size, he grows a polyculture of live-through trees and shrubs, and over the years he has also developed some well thought-out business models. Anyone who wants to farm that way shouldn't want to miss this episode packed with real experience and lots of tips.

Martijn Ballemans, Wouter Veer and Geert van der Veer

Episode 28, 28-6-2023

During the well-attended Green Dream festival on June 24 and 25, 2023, Frank Gorter had a good conversation with three people at the same time. Of course the organizer of the festival, Martijn Ballemans, was at the table, but next to him was a combination that was very special: the founders of two new, hopeful, scalable and inclusive farm concepts: Geert van der Veer of Herenboeren and Wouter Veer, founder of Lenteland. What drove them to get here, but most importantly, how do they see the future of farming, agricultural transition and food in the Netherlands?

Bert DHondt
Episode 27, 26-6-2023

Bert would become a teacher but first made a life-changing trip to Australia in the 1990s. Then he decided to stay home. And turn his family's land into a well-nigh magical food forest that is now more than 20 years old. So this is how living in the future can be! Bert talks about this country and about how he became a teacher after all, but of many new Belgian and Dutch food forest owners.

Marly Bonten
Episode 26, 12-6-2023

We have now had quite a few conversations about creating and managing food forests. What their place is in the landscape and agriculture. But another big question is just as important, namely: what all can you do with the food that comes from a food forest? Will that really become a serious alternative to annual crops? Including bulk food. Marly has made this very question her life's work and can tell about it like no other.

Joke Feenstra and Frank de Gram
Episode 25, 29-5-2023

Frank, Joke and their funder found each other during course year 2019 of Food from the Forest. And then they developed a completely new revenue model, food forest startup model and organizational model that is ecological, but also social, scalable and replicable.

Marieke says it all in the podcast: they are the future. Listen to how this healthcare worker and marketer teamed up to become new farmers, community managers and politicians, and have already started two food forest projects and are providing several people with real jobs in a new economy.

Louis de Jaeger
Episode 24, 15-5-2023

Listener ... fasten your seatbelt! Because this episode takes you into the future at lightning speed. Sketched by someone who, at 29, has already completed several world trips, written two books, made several documentaries and runs several businesses.

How does he get it all done? What drives him to this enormous productivity? Why exactly these activities? And, how does he see the future of man on this planet?

Stijn Heijs
Episode 23, 1-5-2023

Business doctor Stijn Heijs started looking for ways to live sustainably and self-sufficiently. He came across food forests and was immediately sold. His living space became a food forest from the start. But, he also remained businesslike, of course. Where are the snags in the food forest grass? How can you make a living from it as a farmer? As a board member of Stichting Voedselbosbouw Nederland, he is digging into this very subject -as befits a business doctor- all the way.

Fransjan de Waard
Episode 22, 17-4-2023

One of the leading thinkers and pioneers of recent years is celebrating the 30th anniversary of his one-man company in 2023. A company in which he has spent all this time convincing people of the need to change. Live differently, work differently, use energy differently, eat differently, and grow that food differently, too. What is it like to look back? What hasn't changed and what has? And how does he see the role of food forests in that? Especially towards the future.

Marieke Karssen and Frank Gorter
Episode 21, 3-4-2023

After a few months of winter hibernation, we will once again search for answers. And, like last year, we start with ourselves. What are we working on? What would we like to know and discover this season? And, how do we hope to solve the agricultural and food issues of our time? Precisely because the pressure on the landscape is increasing and also because more and more people are becoming aware of the dynamics surrounding the agricultural transition, this year we want to ask our guests even more about their vision of the future. Starting with ourselves, in other words.

By quite some request: the music of 2023

We have created a folder on our google drive where you can download the 2023 music track. If you want to apply it somewhere, please ask permission first at

Episodes 2022

Jelle Fekkes

Episode 20, 26-12-2022

In the final episode of season 2022, we talk with Jelle Fekkes. As a landscape architect, he has developed into a food forest designer, although he likes to call himself a systems thinker. It is important to him that we give the makeability idea of modernism its proper place in our landscape, but also that we apply Vitruvius' three starting points (functionality, soundness and beauty) in our designs. As a teacher, he encourages people to get to work in their own environment without becoming too dogmatic.

Madelon Oostwoud

Episode 19, 12-12-2022

Looking for food forest literature in the Netherlands, you can't ignore Madelon Oostwoud's books. In her publications, she manages to combine practical and useful information about creating and managing food forests and food forest edges with beautiful illustrations of her own hand. She talks about how drawing helps in making a design, about how she taught Amsterdamers how to compost in her small backyard, and of course about her own food forest Schellinkwoud.

Marc Buiter

Episode 18, 28-11-2022

Marc Buiter calls himself a sustainability generalist. That sounds very innocuous, but in his case it means a lifetime of hard fighting to make agriculture more sustainable. And he prefers to fight at a certain level. So that it at least makes some headway.

A podcast with an impressive man who is sure to make you think big. 

Max de Corte

Episode 17, 14-11-2022

Max de Corte has never actually "become" anything, but through many jobs, ever new startups, urban agriculture, transitiontowns and very early introduction to permaculture, he has become, of course, one of the country's great food agriculture experts.

In this podcast, he tells his uniquely interesting life story and lards it richly with a refreshing vision of the future. 

Jeroen Kruit

Episode 16, 31-10-2022

Scientific research on the many yields of food forests is difficult. Not only because virtually all food forests are young and all different, but also because you're talking about multi-year research, and that's a problem by definition. Scientists who buckle down in this for years we call heroes. On top of that, Jeroen Kruit is better able than anyone to connect and strengthen all the different trends and research within the food forest world. 

Weruschca Kirkegaard

Episode 15, 17-10-2022

In this conversation, we quickly move beyond the topic of food forests and also internationally. Weruschca is from Denmark, has been a lifelong entrepreneur, worked for many years as an interior stylist and in the food sector, and from a very personal motivation has been bringing all that experience, energy and qualities to the world of permaculture and especially international and large-scale regenerative landscape design for several years now.

Malika Cieremans

Episode 14, 3-10-2022

In the category of food forest pioneers, you can safely call Malika a Pioneer. She has been concerned with trees, subsistence living, native populations, food and ecological agriculture since she studied forestry in the 1990s. She has traveled extensively and seen large forests and both vital and many forms of impoverished ecosystems. She now translates that experience into her current work and research on food forests. This talk could have gone on for hours. But even in these 54 minutes, you get a lot from her unique perspective on life, health and our future on this planet.

Bastiaan Rooduijn

Episode 13, 19-9-2022

Bastiaan can't be pigeonholed into one. He is a plant nut, food forest builder, ecologist, designer and researcher, but above all a very driven ideologue full of thoughtful and very particular visions of his own. He is our youngest interviewee, but having been involved with nature and plants almost since childhood, we certainly did not experience his opinions as young. Bastiaan thinks deeply about the landscape, science, nature and agriculture. So he is -in short- a real pioneer and a scientist at heart who should definitely not be missed in this podcast. 

Piet Moerman and Hilde Eylenbosch

Episode 12, 5-9-2022

This extraordinary Belgian couple who have been living and working together for a lifetime changed course drastically and extremely well a few years ago. They quit their careers as biotechnologists, bought 4.5 hectares of agricultural land and are developing various permaculture and agroforestry systems in such a way that they are scientifically verifiable. They want to inspire and convince farmers, scientists and policy makers in Belgium with the real facts and figures of these innovative agricultural systems. 

Martijn Ballemans

Episode 11, 22-8-2022

Having grown up in a Vinex neighborhood, and changed course after a crazy trip around the world, Martijn Ballemans is now a much sought-after permaculture and food forest educator. Not only does he know a lot about the content, but because of his background in education he also knows about didactics and teaching methods. Our conversation was about choices, about the future, about agriculture and perhaps above all about dreams with focus. 

Sjef van Dongen

Episode 10, 8-8-2022

Sjef has a unique, energetic and positive view on the food transition. This tenth podcast is therefore bursting with great ideas and delicious one-liners. But our conversation also went into great depth. Just as easily, actually. Where does his vision come from and how did he build his companies? How did his thinking grow? And how does Sjef look at the future and his role therein?
Slogans like 'One Planet, Plant it' and 'People can't go from straight to round in one go' already show that Sjef himself is completely round and at the same time simply reaches out to everyone who thinks straight and leads them to a fantastic green future.

Arne Driessen

Episode 9, 25-7-2022

How do we make the world of the future financially possible? How do we keep agriculture and food forests in particular profitable and within the human scale? How do we teach entrepreneurs and financiers to think differently about impact, interest and exits? Arne can not only talk about this in a fascinating way, he also puts his money where his mouth is. Together with his mother, he invests the family fortune in a way that helps food forest entrepreneurs and growers in surprisingly beautiful entrepreneurial ventures on their way to profitable, healthy businesses.

Vincent Bogaart

Episode 8, 11-7-2022

Vincent is able to build unique bridges. He grew up in nature, but also has extensive experience in the world of chemistry and finance. He speaks the language of all these worlds. But, best of all, he not only talks, but has embarked on a path in which he lives, works and eats entirely according to his vision of the future. In search of a way of life in which we humans once again fit within the possibilities of the planet. 

Heleen Eshuis

Episode 7, 27-6-2022

You start a food forest for the next 400 years and therefore for all generations of the future. Starting with the children of today. Heleen Eshuis has a very personal vision of food forests, and with her foundation Bosnodig, and the first food forest in Voorst, wants to reconnect children and people with the flavors and beautiful diversity of nature

Liesbeth van Bemmel

Episode 6, 13-6-2022

Liesbeth has a unique story to tell within the food forest world for two reasons. First of all, she has a legal background and is excellent at navigating the world of policy and regulation. And then she has managed to establish her food forest with certain ease in the middle of the flat green heart of the Netherlands. Food forest connoisseurs then know that she has pulled off something very special! Her mission is to guide more and more pioneers from a big green heart, so that they will make the path more passable for the next generation. 

Sabine Philips

Episode 5, 30-5-2022

Sabine Philips connects. Centuries of estate history with modern food forests; spiritual yoga with practical farming; distant travels with simple living. And she so easily takes everyone on a journey with her. Friends from the city, neighbors from the village, other tenants of the estate, the complex family and now you, the listener, to a very attractive food forest concept. In the middle of the Dalf forest in Overijssel. 

Wouter van Eck

Episode 4, 16-5-2022

Almost every speaker in this podcast names him as a great inspiration. But, by what and by whom was Wouter van Eck himself inspired? How did he get the idea to buy a field one day and plant food forest Ketelbroek on it? Of course, we also asked him about his vision for the future, but we pretty much dwelled on his great love: the insanely beautiful magic of the two most powerful processes on this planet: photosynthesis and the soil fungal web process and what those processes actually mean.

Martijn Aalbrecht

Episode 3, 2-5-2022

Martijn Aalbrecht has been looking for sustainable ways to live his life for more than 15 years and discovered the food forest while doing it. How did he get from new housing development, a good job at a bank and with a young family in tow to where he is today? A sought-after lecturer and consultant on food forests and plant propagation. And how does he see the future of food forests in the Netherlands?

Evelyn Derksen

Episode 2, 18-4-2022

Evelyn Derksen is a designer, teacher, landscape architect, late bloomer, plant nut, and through her active participation, from the very beginning, in Stichting Voedselbosbouw Nederland now designer of almost all the large food forests of the Netherlands. What is her story and her vision for the food forest landscape of the Netherlands?

Frank Gorter and Marieke Karssen

Episode 1, 7-4-2022

Before talking to other food forest pioneers, Marieke and Frank have a good talk. Why did they start this? And they don't just mean the podcast, but their enthusiasm for food forests as the answer to so many transition issues at once. When did they first hear about it? And what happened next? Or didn't? And how do they view the future of agriculture, food supply, social issues and, of course, food forests themselves.

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Want to learn more about food forests?

On Food from the Forest you will find a lot of free knowledge. About what food forests are... and aren't, about how to thematically fill them in and what the budget and plant list can be to go with that. Recently we made this even better with the food forest recipe tool. Here you can not only find and download six recipes for recognizable landscapes, but also budget with them yourself.

If you have a profile on this platform and have created your food forest there, you can also participate in the citizen science food forest monitoring system. This way, together we build up the evidence that food forests will indeed deliver on those beautiful promises of climate robustness, CO2 storage and a profitable harvest. 

Want to learn more about food forests? Then take a look at our courses.

The food forest cast is not free

Or actually ... until now, it was. We made it largely for free, but that's not sustainable. So, do you care about the food forestcast? Then donate an amount that you can spare and that you think the food forestcast is worth.
As a reference, we give that one food forestcast episode costs 500 euros at an hourly rate of 45 euros.
Thank you!

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